RSS

Category Archives: Uncategorized

Scott Mcknight’s posts On Eastern Orthodox Theology & Hell

Scott McKnight has offered the following three posts regarding the Eastern Orthodox Church’s theological contributions to the concept of Hell.  Here are the links

Eastern Theology and Hell Part One

Eastern Theology and Hell Part Two

Eastern Theology and Hell Part 3

 
Leave a comment

Posted by on March 24, 2011 in Uncategorized

 

Catholic News Agency article on Rob Bell’s Book

Originally posted here

Controversial book on salvation has Catholics and evangelicals asking for clarity

By Benjamin Mann

Denver, Colo., Mar 24, 2011 / 06:22 am (CNA).- “Love Wins,” a new book by prominent evangelical pastor Rob Bell, was creating controversy weeks before it was released on March 15, for its non-traditional proposals about eternal salvation and God’s judgment. Now, Catholic and evangelical voices are calling for clarity in discussing the issues it raises.

Bell’s latest work – subtitled “A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived” – was promoted through a video that provocatively asked whether Gandhi, and the majority of the human race, had been eternally condemned by God for their lack of Christian faith.

While the book raises more questions than it answers, some reviewers have interpreted it as an argument for universal salvation, a position most evangelicals would regard as not biblical. Bell also suggests that there could be an opportunity for faith and repentance after death, and that God’s condemnation of some individuals may not be final.

The Catholic Church denies the possibility of either post-mortem repentance or a temporary hell, and most Catholic theologians have regarded universal salvation as an impossibility. Pope John Paul II wrote that the “silence of the Church” was “the only appropriate position” on the question of whether any particular person was saved or lost.

Bell also speculates that some non-Christians may reach salvation through a type of implicit or unconscious relationship to Christ. The Catholic Church accepts this notion as a possibility, in instances where individuals have failed to receive the Gospel message by no fault of their own.

John Michael Talbot, a Catholic recording artist with close ties to the evangelical world, told CNA that all Christians must be careful in approaching the subject of death, judgment, and the afterlife – particularly those who rely upon “scripture alone,” without the Church’s definitive teaching authority.

Talbot, who left evangelicalism and founded a Franciscan brotherhood, described many contemporary evangelicals as feeling “a hunger for something less legalistic, more mystical and intellectually rich,” than the “rather shallow answers” they are often given in response to questions about salvation and judgment.

But Talbot said Bell, and other like-minded evangelicals, “lack the full set of tools to find those deeper answers” – which Catholics are given through  “sacred scripture, apostolic tradition, and the magisterium, or teaching authority, of the church.”

He indicated that Catholic teachings on salvation could provide more definitive answers to the kinds of questions that led Bell to write “Love Wins.”

“Those who have never had the good news of Jesus written on their hearts by the Spirit are only responsible for what they know,” Talbot said, paraphrasing what the Second Vatican Council taught in its Dogmatic Constitution on the Church.

“Therefore,” he stated, “those who are not Christians may be saved.”

But he pointed out that this possibility “does not negate the need to proclaim that Jesus alone is the fullness of God’s revelation to humanity, and opens the doorway to salvation.”

Talbot said that the Catholic understanding of salvation portrays God’s character more accurately than the common Evangelical teaching that assumes all non-Christians are damned.

Catholic teaching on salvation, he said, “is like a rich oil painting of Jesus, as compared to a black and white line drawing or even a cartoon. It has the basics found in the line drawing, but with subtle colors, shades, and hues not found in the other approach.”

But Talbot concurred with Bell’s evangelical critics in rejecting the notion of universal salvation.

“The mystery of iniquity is that some will actually choose to turn from God for eternity,” he said. “This seems inconceivable to most of us, but scripture and tradition says that some will.”

Dr. Douglas Groothuis, an evangelical philosopher and apologist who teaches at the non-denominational Denver Seminary, gave CNA his perspective on several subjects where Bell takes an unconventional turn in “Love Wins.”

“Some evangelicals hold that while salvation is through Jesus Christ alone, some in the New Covenant era may be saved by Christ without having known of the Gospel as such, if they fulfill certain conditions.” But, Groothuis said, “others deny this.”

Many evangelicals are committed to the principle of salvation by “faith alone,” which teaches that no human act other than believing in Christ has any bearing on one’s salvation.

But Groothuis said “most evangelicals” would accept the possibility of God making a “final offer” of salvation to individuals at the threshold of death. Catholic teaching holds that this could occur, although it is impossible to know whether or not it actually happens.

“Love Wins” also contains a passage in which Bell expresses anxiety for the fate of those who die suddenly and unexpectedly, without having become Christians.  He indicates that the notion of an immediate and final judgment after death makes God turn from “kind and compassionate” to “cruel and relentless, in the blink of an eye.”

But Groothuis said that this issue of death and judgment required a clearer understanding of God’s providence, a subject on which evangelicals largely concur with the Catholic Church.

According to Catholic teaching, God has complete sovereignty over the beginning and end of life, and complete foreknowledge of human decisions. From these principles, it can be inferred that no one dies “before his time,” meaning that all those who die are either prepared to face God and be saved – or else, would never have chosen to be saved even if given additional time.

Groothuis agreed with this traditional understanding of God’s providence, and said it could help both evangelicals and Catholics to understand the logic of an irrevocable judgment immediately after death – because, he indicated, every person is either prepared to face the judgment, or would never have prepared themselves in any case.

“God is sovereign over life and death, “ he stated. “Nothing surprises God.”

 
Leave a comment

Posted by on March 24, 2011 in Uncategorized

 

Rob Bell Responds to Universalism accusation

Here is a video from CNN with Rob Bell responding to the claims that he is an evangelical universalist.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/apps/cvp/3.0/swf/cnn_416x234_embed.swf?context=embed&videoId=living/2011/03/18/belief.heretic.pastor.fires.back.cnn

Here is the interview that is referenced

 
http://cdn.livestream.com/embed/lovewins?layout=4&autoplay=false

Watch live streaming video from lovewins at livestream.com
 

Eugene Peterson on the uproar over Rob Bell’s book.

Eugene Peterson: Would Jesus Condemn Rob Bell?

It was a pleasure to speak with the sagely Eugene Peterson at a consultation on Faith and Technology this past weekend. Peterson is best known for his ordinary-language translation of the Bible, called The Message, which has sold millions of copies, but he is also renowned for his many works on discipleship and spiritual theology.  He is the Professor Emeritus of Spiritual Theology at Regent College.

I spoke with Mr. Peterson about his memoir, The Pastor, and I look forward to publishing those comments.  But I also asked him — for our book feature on Love Wins — about the “Hellgate” controversy.  Peterson wrote a blurb for the back of the book that says, “It isn’t easy to develop a biblical imagination that takes in the comprehensive and eternal work of Christ…Rob Bell goes a long way in helping us acquire just such an imagination — without a trace of the soft sentimentality and without compromising an inch of evangelical conviction.”

What are your thoughts regarding Rob Bell’s book and the controversy it ignited?  What inspired you to endorse the book?

Rob Bell and anyone else who is baptized is my brother or my sister.  We have different ways of looking at things, but we are all a part of the kingdom of God.  And I don’t think that brothers and sisters in the kingdom of God should fight.  I think that’s bad family manners.

I don’t agree with everything Rob Bell says.  But I think they’re worth saying.  I think he puts a voice into the whole evangelical world which, if people will listen to it, will put you on your guard against judging people too quickly, making rapid dogmatic judgments on people.  I don’t like it when people use hell and the wrath of God as weaponry against one another.

I knew that people would jump on me for writing the endorsement.  I wrote the endorsement because I would like people to listen to him.  He may not be right.  But he’s doing something worth doing.  There’s so much polarization in the evangelical church that it’s a true scandal.  We’ve got to learn how to talk to each other and listen to each other in a civil way.

Do evangelicals need to reexamine our doctrines of hell and damnation?

Yes, I guess I do think they ought to reexamine.  They ought to be a good bit more biblical, not taking things out of context.

But the people who are against Rob Bell are not going to reexamine anything.  They have a litmus test for who is a Christian and who is not.  But that’s not what it means to live in community.

Luther said that we should read the entire Bible in terms of what drives toward Christ.  Everything has to be interpreted through Christ.  Well, if you do that, you’re going to end up with this religion of grace and forgiveness.  The only people Jesus threatens are the Pharisees.  But everybody else gets pretty generous treatment.  There’s very little Christ, very little Jesus, in these people who are fighting Rob Bell.

 

Michael Jensen quote on hell

“Christians have since very early days appealed to Hell and depicted Hell in ways quite unknown in the witness of their own Scriptures, and have at times drawn a perverse comfort from the imagined spectacle of the suffering of others”

Michael Jensen

 
Leave a comment

Posted by on March 18, 2011 in Uncategorized

 

Welcome to Ekklesia’s Interactive Hell Week Blog

Purpose of this Site

This blog is not intended to endorse or promote any particular theological position on the subject of Hell.  We would like for you to engage in prayerfully considering the topic as you engage scripture, logic, and your fellow brothers and sisters over this topic.  This blog is intended to serve as a landing place for whoever is interested in further engaging the conversation we started on the nature of Hell in Christian Theology.  We hope it will provide some resources for you to further investigate what you believe and why you believe it.

Rules for this Site

The rules here are simple, go wherever you want on the site, as often as you want, and interact (comment etc.) as many times as you want.  We ask only that your comments are respectful and that all rhetoric is based in love and respect for each other.  In that vein we ask that if you leave comments you do so under your actual name – we tend to be more kind we we are not anonymous.

How do I navigate this site?

For now we have posted page link across the top of the page relating to 3 general Christian approaches to Hell  (Traditional, Evangelical Universalist, Annihilation). Understanding that there a virtually limitless variation within and outside of these categories, they should serve as a good launching point for those of you beginning the investigation

POSTS ARE IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER and can best be explored by category (category list is in the right hand column of this page)

 
1 Comment

Posted by on March 15, 2011 in Uncategorized

 

Renewing the Controversy

Figured I would post the video that is intended to promote Rob Bell’s New Book Love Wins.  This is the video that recently set off a firestorm (no pun intended) about Hell.  Although the book is not yet published it is already receiving a lot of attention and/or condemnation from some segments of the Christian world.  What do you think?